Win conditions for round competitions

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Tyger
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:56
Country: Sweden

Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Tyger »

Today, there are some problems with competing at the highest level in Turf: There aren't many places in the world where the turfers have chance of winning a round. There are vast inequalities between cities with different level of activity. It's very hard to win in a city with high activity compared to winning in a city with low activity. Therefore, the current system encourages inactivity of all other turfers in a city, if they want to help their turfer to win. Furthermore, two turfers in the same city can't compete for the gold medal without severely reducing each other chances of getting any medal at all.

Luckily, these problems can be remedied by changing the win conditions for the overall competition. We should compare takeovers instead of total points between turfers who compete at different locations. But the particular order on the top list between turfers from the same city should be determined by their total points instead.

By adopting this change we would improve Turf vastly. It would be possible to win in citites with fewer zones. The requirements for winning a round would be more equal. Overall activity would rise, since taking zones from gold contenders would mean helping them instead of messing with their chances to win. We would open up for the possibility of intense local battles, instead of hampering them. Competing on the highest level of turf would come closer the essence of what Turf should be.
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LeiLar
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Location: Umeå

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by LeiLar »

Agree! Please change.
Turf member since: 2013-01-26 00:37:51
StarDust
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Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by StarDust »

It's an interesting thought although your claim is only half true. In order for a player to win, one often has to compete in an active city since points per hour (pph) never outweighs the actual takeover points (tp).

Let us assume that ideal conditions apply, that means that you have a maximum block time and minimum takeover time. The fastest you can retake a zone is 35 minutes if the other players is new.

A zone with 9pph will give you a 65tp. The other player has to wait 30 minutes so the total takeover points in this case would be 69.5. In a less active area you may have a 4pph zone. Such a zone gives you 140tp. If no-one takes the zone away from you so you can re-capture it you would have to wait nearly 35 hours to get an additional 140 points from that particular zone. In an even more inactive area where you find a 1pph zone which grants you 185tp, you would have to wait 185 hours (over a week) to get 185 points if no-one takes that zone.

Therefore, claiming that inactivity will grant you a victory or even an advantage is unfortunately false, however counting takeovers might be considered a more even way of winning a round.
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit, what a ride!"
hazzard
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Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by hazzard »

The monthly rounds will never be fair, only thing that is are the bonanzas and events there atleast everyone plays at same conditions and same area but to balance the monthly rounds they would have to remake the whole tp/pph system and i really doubt they gonna bother even touch that after so long time, its here to stay imo better get used that whoever wins is the one with most freetime..
Vintentina
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Joined: 09 May 2014 18:18
Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Vintentina »

I'm against. Making takes count instead of points will make it all about who has the most physical stamina and nearby zones and nothing about tactics.
Lillkvadden
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Joined: 04 Jun 2014 06:52
Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Lillkvadden »

It is not fair to compete for the most number of takes.

There is a big difference in conditions between cities, in terms of zone density and how hilly it is.
For example: I turf most of Valdemarsvik, and when a new round starts, it takes me about 2 hours to take all the 38 zones. And there i know the fastest ways between all the zones.
A while ago I stopped in Kalmar. There, i took 75 zones at the same time, in a city i never turfed in before.

So, compete for most takes is not fair!
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Marrrs
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Location: Enköping, Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Marrrs »

Just add a TO gold medal for the player with most takes per round. Done. Move along folks, nothing here to see now. 8-)
8-)
Tyger
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:56
Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Tyger »

StarDust wrote:It's an interesting thought although your claim is only half true. In order for a player to win, one often has to compete in an active city since points per hour (pph) never outweighs the actual takeover points (tp).

Let us assume that ideal conditions apply, that means that you have a maximum block time and minimum takeover time. The fastest you can retake a zone is 35 minutes if the other players is new.

A zone with 9pph will give you a 65tp. The other player has to wait 30 minutes so the total takeover points in this case would be 69.5. In a less active area you may have a 4pph zone. Such a zone gives you 140tp. If no-one takes the zone away from you so you can re-capture it you would have to wait nearly 35 hours to get an additional 140 points from that particular zone. In an even more inactive area where you find a 1pph zone which grants you 185tp, you would have to wait 185 hours (over a week) to get 185 points if no-one takes that zone.

Therefore, claiming that inactivity will grant you a victory or even an advantage is unfortunately false, however counting takeovers might be considered a more even way of winning a round.
Your example is very strange in several aspects. First of all, you don't win a round by taking a zone and then wait without taking other zones for days. Furthermore, you do not account for retakes which would reskew your example.

However, the most important fallacy in your calculation is that it's the total points per take which is interesting. With my suggestion this would be extremely equal, one point for each take, unless two persons from the same city wants to compete each other.

First of all, in a city with high activity the takeovertime for every contestant is usually thirty minutes and in very rare cases only five (less than 0,1% percentage of takes).

Let's compare points/take in your example. If you take a 65/9 zone, you will keep it approximately two hours. Thus, that take will give you 83 points/take. If the activity level would have been as low as the same kind of zone yielded 140/4 points. You will keep such a zone approximately 18 hours, which would give you 212 points/take.

Therefore, even though we are disregarding the greater risk of being blocked in a high activity city, you need more than the double amount of takeovers to get the same amount of points.
Tyger
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:56
Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Tyger »

hazzard wrote:The monthly rounds will never be fair, only thing that is are the bonanzas and events there atleast everyone plays at same conditions and same area but to balance the monthly rounds they would have to remake the whole tp/pph system and i really doubt they gonna bother even touch that after so long time, its here to stay imo better get used that whoever wins is the one with most freetime..
I disagree with you. I don't believe that we should stay with a more unfair system just because we cannot achieve perfect fairness within a system.

Though, even though changing numbers for the tp/pph system wouldn't take more time than a few minutes, this is not what I am suggesting. Takeovers are already registered in the system and switching win conditions isn't hard at all.
Tyger
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:56
Country: Sweden

Re: Win conditions for round competitions

Post by Tyger »

Anna H wrote:I'm against. Making takes count instead of points will make it all about who has the most physical stamina and nearby zones and nothing about tactics.
The tactical element today is that the turfers in a city leave their competing turfer's zones as long as possible. I'd change that for the original idea of turf, which is to actually being active and take as many zones as possible for everyone, every day of the week.

When you compete against someone else in another city, there are no tactics, beside the above mentioned. And as I state, the current win conditions make "tactical turfing" in the same city practically impossible as any two turfers can't win globally if they compete each other locally. By changing win condition we would actually enable tactics when two turfers from the same town both try to win globally.
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